Friday, August 24, 2007

Corresponding with an Athiest

I wrote to this person, after previously visiting his site. I'm not interested in throwing stones at anyone, So I choose not to refer you to him. I dont want to make a mockery of him. But I feel this conversation explains a lot, we need to understand. It begins with my letter to him. The sections are color coded. My responses in blue, his in white.

I didn’t see if you had responded to my last comment, so I don’t know what ground you stand on. I want to talk to you like an adult. I don’t want to go into this huge theatrical debate with you. Not saying you produce this, but going on what I've seen in your comments. I just want to say, how brilliant I feel you could be. You seem to have collected your evidence to build the perfect case. But there is something you are missing, and this is called, hunger. You have no hunger to venture out into something new. Something strange, unfamiliar. It seems your soul is dead, because you will not allow it to go any further. This is a sad mistake my friend. When you stop the tracks on something like, Growth.. You no longer receive, the warmth, which a beating heart will give. I see these things that you write, that you study, that you respond to. I see these people stand behind you as if YOU are there GOD. It becomes a chain reaction, toppling into everyone that stumbles onto your site. It’s very dangerous, and honestly selfish. Who are to tell all of these people, there is no GOD. Who are you to state something that Grand, as a fact. Who are you to mock others, for something that they believe in? Who are you to stand back and laugh while the horrible show that you produced, goes into a wild frenzy? I see this and I just think... gross! GROSS! This is completely gross. And it is not only because you are slandering and shaming someone YOU have never met, it’s also because you are advocating so much hate. YOU can call it what you want, BUT IT IS HATE. Placing information and having a discussion about something is one thing. But you have taken it to bashing other religions, that you just "KNOW" are wrong, Threatening other members that comment and react to you, Coming in behind almost everyone’s comments, and posting EVERY TINY REASON, why these people are probably wrong, and posting other writings from other people, as a way to ridicule them in front of the class.... I mean, seriously, who taught you how to interact with people? It seems you forget that not everyone, has traveled down the same road as you, and you have somewhere, decided this makes them unworthy! Just get over it! Christians, atheists, humanists, Buddhists, protestants, Catholics, hinduists, monks, presidents, communists, the English, the Canadians, atheists, Mormons, theists, Taoists.. All people.. ALL OF US ARE GUILTY! ALL OF US ARE GUILTY OF HATE! ALL OF US ARE GUILTY OF COMING ON TO STRONG! ALL OF US ARE GUILTY OF BACKSTABBING, SLANDER, GLUTTONY.... ALL of us man. Nothing is going to change until we make the decisions to make it happen. Everyone will figure out the answer to that ultimate question. And if I am right, then GOOD, I'm going to a beautiful and wondrous place after all of this. Forever. But if I'm wrong, alright, I'll never know anyway will I? I'll be dead and in the ground or in the water. And so will you right? And so will all of those other people!!! SO even if the idea of Christianity is not OK with you, doesn’t mean EVERYONE has to feel the same way. Why don’t you focus on your own life. Because if you are not teaching others how to love to each other and how to overcome these mountains in each others lives, then you don’t need to be teaching others at all, because this world is already fussed up as it is. And if you ever want these people, to STOP "Shoving religion down your throat"- then stop shoving your, "Assumptions" on them. Life works TWO ways. Respect works two ways. I wish you would think about it. Please don’t send me every paragraph back, commented on... This would mean that you took nothing from this but offense. That is not how I meant it at all. Consider the idea, that YOU are wrong. Consider the thought, that if everything in the bible is true, then you have some major life changing, thinking to do. Consider... WHAT IF????? Peace- The Prodigal Son


You are speaking to a former Christian, friend. Like I tell everybody who is a seeker of Truth (with a big 'T'), Truth only points in one direction, and confirmation bias is not a good compass. I am not against the idea of God. Go to my page, not my blog, and look at the thesis of my website. I am only an atheist with respect to the Judeo Christian God (once again, see the thesis). I wish we could all just get along, and go about our business, and live together in harmony, but when I see things such as this: Are we becoming the laughing stock of the world? I am forced to respond. If you want to get a better understanding of why I do what I do here, I suggest you look at this recent blog I have posted, and really think about what Sam Harris has to say: Religious Moderation Also, pick up Sam Harris' book, "The End of Faith". And to show you I am a good sport, I will take down the blog I have recently posted, which resides in the Top ten myspace blogs, where I picked on one person in particular (how he said Jesus fixed his car).


Fair enough. I have seen your sight. I have read through your blogs. And the other videos you just sent. I just watched those. But what I saw was a video, of people who put together something they believed in.(the new creation museum- that gives us an idea about how creation was put together- according the the bible.) I saw a man, give me his reasons why God is angry. (sam harris- commenting on how angry GOD was in the old testament)When I hear people say, GOD is angry, it makes me wonder how far into the word they have truly studied? The more I study- especially the Old Testament, the more I find comfort in the things I read before. I know, that there are things we do not yet understand, if we are ever meant to. I know that GOD is not something you can put in a box, and say this is GOD, in this box, and here are all his words, around him. History is something that we can always learn from. So you used to be a Christian. I did not know that. But im not surprised, to be honest.. I happen to see and meet a lot of people who are former Christians, for some reason or the other. Most I've found, just didn’t stick with it long enough, to have these questions answered, or never had faith in the first place. We've gone away from god, and resorted to something we can see with our own eyes, and touch with our hands. And obviously this is something that’s been touched on from centuries, because even the apostles needed proof. Humor me for a second. Last night, I had somewhat of a breakdown. Wondering why things have to be the way are. I went somewhere quiet. It needed to be just me and him. So I went outside, sat on my trampoline, and stared into the sky. My emotions got the best of me. I felt in my spirit, "Do you want me to give you proof?" I said, "No... I just want help." Minutes later. 3 shooting stars graced my view. At first I thought.. He gave me proof anyway. But I soon realized, No, this is not proof. Because it’s still something I have to have faith in. Like everything else. And this circles true Christianity. Faith. You remember... Jesus taught this as much importance. This would be what defines us. And I believe... it truly does. What my thought is...what if you are clouded? What if your mind is clouded? What if you can't see the truth, because you have your eyes fixed on something physical. GOD is so big... I don’t think it would be the same, if we all had iron clad proof of his existence. And the point is, we don’t have iron clad proof of his existence, or his non-existence. Now if we read this over again, out loud.. And EVEN- and that’s a HUGE even.. Even if, the bible is wrong, and we are not meant for something bigger.. Don’t you think it would be better to live a life of love, rather than a life, spending so much effort trying to disprove something you can never disprove? And the tragedy is, if you ARE wrong about this.. You are not only taking your self to an eternity without GOD, you are taking millions and millions of others with you. Not to mention Sam Harris.. And so many others preaching these same messages. It seems that if someone’s blood is pumping, that this would weigh on their conscience tremendously. And so many people who do believe in Jesus, and his words.. Affected so greatly when they read these things. And all of these people that are clueless and have no idea what love is.. And are filled with animosity and anger.. And zero tolerance for even the mention of creation or Jesus.. All these people are just feeding the beast, when getting together with you and these others.. And its just becomes a ravage beast fest, ripping each other apart! I wonder how deep you went with GOD.. If you were a former Christian. It makes me think you just "Went by the book." as we say. It seems you only skimmed the surface. Do you feel you have ever had a relationship with GOD?

Consider: every devout Muslim has the same reasons for being a Muslim that you have for being a Christian. And yet you do not find their reasons compelling. The Koran repeatedly declares that it is the perfect word of the creator of the universe. Muslims believe this as fully as you believe the Bible's account of itself. There is a vast literature describing the life of Muhammad that, from the point of view of Islam, proves that he was the most recent Prophet of God. Muhammad also assured his followers that Jesus was not divine (Koran 5:71-75; 19:30-38) and that anyone who believes otherwise will spend eternity in hell. Muslims are certain that Muhammad's opinion on this subject, as on all others, is infallible. Why don't you lose any sleep over whether to convert to Islam? Can you prove that Allah is not the one, true God? Can you prove that the archangel Gabriel did not visit Muhammad in his cave? Of course not. But you need not prove any of these things to reject the beliefs of Muslims as absurd. The burden is upon them to prove that their beliefs about God and Muhammad are valid. They have not done this. They cannot do this. Muslims are simply not making claims about reality that can be corroborated. This is perfectly apparent to anyone who has not anesthetized himself with the dogma of Islam. The truth is, you know exactly what it is like to be an atheist with respect to the beliefs of Muslims. Isn't it obvious that Muslims are fooling themselves? Isn't it obvious that anyone who thinks that the Koran is the perfect word of the creator of the universe has not read the book critically? Isn't it obvious that the doctrine of Islam represents a near-perfect barrier to honest inquiry? Yes, these things are obvious. Understand that the way you view Islam is precisely the way devout Muslims view Christianity. And it is the way I view all religions.

This is all true, and you make a fair case. So heres how I figure this one out. When comparing the Koran to the bible, and "YHWH" to "ALLAH" - I must look at prophecies fulfilled. "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." - Deuteronomy 18:22 alright- so lets see. Heres some comparisons. Jeremiah preached as a prophet in about 626 B.C., and YHWH (the God of the Bible) declared through Jeremiah that, because of their sins, God would bring King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon against the southern kingdom of Judah to defeat and destroy their land, and to carry them off to captivity in Babylon (and in other nations) for 70 years; But when the 70 years were over, Babylon would be defeated (Jeremiah 25:8-14), and then the Lord (YHWH) would bring the people of Judah out of Babylon (and out of those other nations) and back to their land (Jeremiah 29:10-11). These predictions qualify as the type of prophecy we are looking for, because it is not a declaration of Jeremiah's own plans which he can self-fulfill. And further, there are six specific predictions listed here: *"King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon" would attack the people of "Judah" *the "defeat" of Judah by Babylon *Judah's "captivity" in Babylon for a period of "70 years," *Judah's restoration back into "their land." Very importantly, concerning these predictions: The action of taking people captive (which is done by Nebuchadnezzar), as well as the length of the captivity, would be outside the control of the prophet or of the people of Judah. Fulfillment: Archaeology and ancient history confirm the precise fulfillment of these six predictions of Jeremiah, because in the year 606 B.C. (20 years after the prophecy), King Nebuchadnezzar's armies subdued Judah, taking thousands of Jews captive to Babylon (and other nations). This captivity process continued (including the fall of Jerusalem in 605 B.C.) until virtually all of the people of Judah were taken captive. (By the way, here's another prophecy: In 595 B.C, Jeremiah also foretold the fall of Babylon to the Medes --in Jeremiah 51:11,28). This Babylonian captivity of Judah lasted until Babylon fell to Medo-Persia (fulfilling Jeremiah's prophecy of 595 B.C.). Then Cyrus the Persian King decreed in 536 B.C. that the Jews could return to their land, which many of them did --though not all of them, as it was not promised that all of them would return at that time. Thus, the captivity lasted 70 years --precisely as foretold! The accurate fulfillment of this multi-faceted predictive prophecy demonstrates that Jeremiah is a genuine prophet who wrote a book of genuine prophecy which gives God's words --and that the God of Jeremiah (YHWH) is truly God, who knows people's actions before they do them, and who manages the course of history. This is one example of dozens of fulfilled biblical predictions that could be given. ---In fact, a number of additional fulfilled predictions from the Bible are described on this WorldView_3 website at: for exp: DANIEL is another book in which we find another example of genuine prophecy began its fulfillment soon after the fulfillment of the above prophecy. Daniel wrote his book in 538 B.C., and was one of the Jews taken in the 70-year Babylonian captivity. In Daniel 9:25, we read that from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, until the coming of Messiah (the "Anointed One", in Hebrew: "Mashiach"), 69 heptads of years would elapse [7+62=69]. Each heptad (or "week", in Hebrew: "Shabuim") is a group of seven years, therefore, from the decree until Messiah, 483 years would go by [69x7=483]. -----So, what happened in history?----- An overarching decree, for the purpose of returning the Jews to Israel to rebuild Jerusalem, was issued in 457 B.C. by the Persian king Artaxerxes. If we add the 483 years to this date, we come out to the year 26 A.D., which is about the very year that Jesus of Nazareth was baptized (anointed with water and with the Holy Spirit) to begin his public ministry. This is a strong fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy, but Daniel added a couple other things about Messiah: He said that Messiah would be "cut off" (v.26), which is an idiom for being killed. This happened when Jesus was crucified at the end of his earthly ministry. And Daniel also said that after the 69 heptads (483 yrs) were over, the city [Jerusalem] and the sanctuary would be destroyed ...which happened in 70 A.D. when the Roman legions under Titus destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. It is important to note from this prophecy in Daniel, that the appearance of Messiah had to occur at the end of the 69 heptads [483 years], but before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Jesus of Nazareth was ministering right at the end of the 69 heptads, and, other than he, there is no other credible choice to fulfill this prophecy concerning Messiah. This text in Daniel 9 is the only text in the entire Old Testament which explicitly speaks of the "Messiah", and it says that he will be "cut off" (die). In reference to Muslims being subject to hell for the belief in Jesus: (Hope your still with me!) 1. Messiah to be a descendant of Abraham & Sarah - Genesis 12:2-3 ; 17:15-17 ; 18:18 (Fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth - Matthew 1:1 ; Luke 3:33 ; Acts 3:25.) Logic: How many 90-year-old couples have ever born a child? (From 1500 B.C to 1900 A.D.) Thus... The Chance = 1 chance out of 1,000,000 2. Messiah to be a descendant of Isaac - Genesis 17:19 (Fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth - Matthew 1:2 ; Luke 3:33) Logic: Abraham had two sons. (But the other son, Ishmael, was not by Sarah). Thus... The Chance = 1 chance out of 2 3. Messiah to be a descendant of Judah- Genesis 49:10 (Fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth - Matthew1:3; Luke 3:33) Logic: Israel (Jacob) had 12 sons who became the 12 tribes. Thus... The Chance = 1 out of 12 4. Messiah to be a descendant of David - Isaiah 9:7 (Fulfilled in Jesus - Matthew 1:6 ; Luke 3:31) Logic: David was one of 8 sons. Thus... The Chance = 1 out of 8 5. Birth-Place of Messiah, the "Eternal One", to be in Bethlehem, Israel - Micah 5:2 (Fulfilled in Jesus - Matthew 2:1 ; Luke 2:4-7) Logic: How many towns have Jews lived in around the world since 1500 B.C.? Thus... The Chance = 1 out of 1000 6. The Time of Messiah's ministry specified - Daniel 9:25 (Fulfilled in Jesus - (see above) Logic: How many generations of Jews have there been? Thus... The Chance = 1 out of 100 7. Messiah to be born of a virgin - Isaiah 7:14 (Fulfilled in Jesus - Matthew 1:18 ; Luke 1:26-35) Logic: Though basically a miracle, there may be some small chance. (up to 1900 A.D.) Thus... The Chance = 1 out of 1,000,000 8. Messiah flees to Egypt to live for a while, and returns to Israel - Hosea 11:1 (Fulfilled in Jesus - Matthew 2:14-15) Logic: What percentage of Jews have ever lived in Egypt? Thus... The Chance = 1 out of 1000 9. Messiah to be a prophet like Moses, with miracles, authority over the Scriptures - Deut. 18:15 (Fulfilled in Jesus - John 6:14 ; John 1:45 ; Acts 3:19-26) Logic: How many Jews have major prophetic status, still recognized worldwide long after death? The Chance = 1 out of 1,000,000 10. Messiah to enter Jerusalem triumphantly, as a King, ...riding on a donkey - Zechariah 9:9 (Fulfilled in Jesus - John 12:12-14 ; Matthew 21:1-11) Logic: How many Jews have ever done precisely this? The Chance = 1 out of 1,000,000 11. Messiah, though innocent, is rejected and dies for our sins - Isaiah 53:3-5,9,12 (Fulfilled in Jesus - John 1:11,29 ; John 8:46 ; Hebrews 4:15 ; John 15:23-25 ; Matthew 8:16-17) Logic: How many people (besides Jesus) are sinless? ...and died for the sins of others? Thus... The Chance = 1 out of 1,000,000 12. Messiah to be crucified, bones disjointed, mocked, lots cast for clothing - Psalm 22:6-8,16-18 (Fulfilled in Jesus - Matthew 27:32f ; John 19:16) Logic: How many have been crucified, also including just these circumstances? Thus... The Chance = 1 out of 1,000,000 13. Messiah's side to be pierced at the behest of the people of Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:10 (Fulfilled in Jesus - John 19:34) Logic: The number of crucified victims at Jerusalem with a stab in the side? Thus... The Chance = 1 out of 1000 14. Messiah's body does not decay, but is resurrected in three days - Psalm 16:10 ; Isaiah 53:11 (Fulfilled in Jesus - Matthew 28 ; Mark 16 ; Luke 24 ; John 20 ; Acts 1 ; 1 Corinthians 15) Logic: How many people have come back to life after being dead for three days? Thus... The Chance = 1 out of 1,000,000 15. Messiah to ascend into heaven, and rightly called "Lord" - Psalm 68:18 (Fulfilled in Jesus - Luke 24:50-51 ; Acts 1:9-11) Logic: Very few men have ascended into heaven without mechanical means. Thus... The Chance = 1 out of 1,000,000 ALSO Here is GOD telling us, our proof is in these words. "I am the LORD [Hebrew = "YHWH"]; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. See, the former things have taken place, and new things I declare; before they spring into being I announce them to you" (Isa. 42:8-9). "Bring in your idols to tell us what is going to happen. ...declare to us the things to come, tell us what the future holds, so we may know that you are gods!" - Isaiah 41:22-23 "Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare ...what is yet to come-- yes, let him foretell what will come!" - Isaiah 44:7 "I am God and there is none like me. I make known from ancient times ...what is still to come" (Isa. 44:9,10). So most would be saying, Their are prophecies in the koran which were fulfilled too! (Im sending this to you as is, and will send a follow up concerning the Koran. Please wait for it.) :)

See my blog: FAILED PROPHECIES

Concerning prophecies fulfilled in the Koran: Some people have said that predictive prophecy is found in Sura 5:70, which states: "We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent them apostles, every time, there came to them an apostle with what they themselves desired not - some (of these) they called impostors, and some they (go so far as to) slay." --The problem here is: there is not even a future-tense verb in this sentence. It must be considered history, and thus, there is no prediction in it. --This passage is very similar to Matt. 24:37, where Jesus said: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing." This Bible verse is also history, without prediction in it. ---Despite the clear similarities of these two verses from the Koran and the Bible, neither one of them is predictive, and thus, neither one is useful for our purposes in trying to demonstrate the presence of the power of God to predict future events, which would be evidence that the speaker is a true prophet or that book is from God. Sura 15:9 says, "We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)." --So, here we find a promise to guard the message of the Koran. This verse is fairly similar to the declaration of Jesus in Mat. 24:35, when he said, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away." --With the admittedly predictive nature of both of these passages, neither one can yet be said to be truly and completely fulfilled, since we have not yet reached the final consummation of history, where God finally confirms the eternal nature of his word --therefore neither passage can yet be said to be fulfilled, nor can they yet be cited as demonstrating the power of God to predict the future. Sura 24:55 says that Allah has promised to bless (with land? and inheritance?) those who believe, and to establish the authority of their religion and give them security and peace. --This "prediction" might seem to be fulfilled in some sense, but it is quite general, since it does not clearly or specifically name the person(s) who will be blessed nor the specific land-mass they will inherit: Is it every Muslim? What is the specific name of the land? How soon will they have peace and security, and how long will it last? --It is because of these unclear and non-specific qualities of this "prediction" in Sura 24, that therefore, it does not qualify as predictive prophecy which is specific enough that we can confirm it from history. --The Bible has many such promises as well. The Best Quranic Possibility: Of the 22 predictions presented by Hingora for acceptance, we are left with one last Koranic passage, Sura 30:2-3, which says: "The Roman Empire has been defeated in a land close by; but they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious within a few years." ---Now, of all the proffered predictions from the Koran, this one from Sura 30 comes the closest to being a specific prediction which names the people involved (the "Roman Empire"), and what will happen (they will be victorious), and when ("within a few years"). This passage refers to the time when the Persians (under Khusran Parvis) defeated the Byzantine Romans in Syria (in A.D. 615). However, there are a few problems which seem to disqualify this passage as a significant predictive prophecy: FIRST: The most serious problem may be that the statements in Sura 30 may merely be history, and not a prediction, because Mohammed was alive and still producing Koranic verses for several years after the time of the suggested Roman victory in history. We know this is the case, because Mohammed died in 632 A.D. at the age of 63. According to Al-Baizawi's commentary, the Byzantine Romans were evidently victorious over Persia in 628 A.D., and so, Mohammed was alive for four years after that victory ---therefore, Mohammed could easily have learned of the victory and then have dictated these verses of Sura 30. This would make Sura 30 history, not a prediction. ---Another story indicates that there may have been a Roman victory in 624 A.D., and in such a case, Mohammed would have had eight years in which to learn of the victory and then to dictate this part of Sura 30. Therefore, this would not be a prediction in Sura 30, but a statement of history. Indeed, biographers indicate that Mohammed was still producing quranic verses in the year 632 --therefore, it is very likely that these verses of Sura 30 may only be history, and not predictions at all. SECOND: It is a very safe bet that in "a few" years the Romans would be "victorious" in some battle somewhere, since they were fighting several battles during every given year. At least one victory would seem almost 100% sure to happen within the space of nine years. (Mohammed himself stated that what was meant by the "small number" or "a few years" is between three and nine years, according to Al-Baizawi in his commentary). --But, amazingly, although a few people say there was supposedly a victory within nine years, but this is doubtful, as Al-Bazawi's commentary indicates that a Byzantine Roman victory over Persia was actually in A.D. 628 (which was thirteen years later). --Not only that, but (as was mentioned in the first point) Mohammed probably already knew about the Roman victory. So, the problem is: the Sura 30 prediction is virtually a sure bet. --It is much like saying that the British soccer team will win a game during the next season. This is also much like the mummification of a pharaoh, which is also almost a sure bet, which Mohammed most likely already knew about. ---Is such a safe "prediction" supposed to be significant? Why should anyone be impressed with it? --Therefore, Sura 30:2-3 most probably is history, and isn't a prediction at all. Muslims in Hell Going beyond the discussion about Abu Lahab, the Koran actually says that all Muslims will go to hell, and further, it does not promise or guarantee than any of them will necessarily ever get out of it. -- This is stated as follows: There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell). This was an inevitable decree of your Lord. Afterwards he may save some of the pious, God-fearing Muslims out of the burning fire. - - - Sura 19:71-72 So, perhaps some pious Muslims will escape hell. --Maybe. But maybe not. Allah "may" leave every last one in eternal hell-fire. I, for my part, am thankful to have Jesus Christ as my great and powerful savior, because no one who truly trusts in him will ever experience any of hell, and there are multiple guarantees that there is "no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:1). -- There is no condemnation now, nor in the future, in hell. Ever. **Some people feel that there are statements in the Hadiths (Commentaries on the Koran) which are possibly fulfilled predictions, --however, the Hadiths are not considered to be actual Scripture from God, so the Hadiths will not come into consideration. What do you think?

I'll read your blog, but did you even read what I wrote? (I wrote this to him, because he sent me a response to the above, pretty much 3 seconds after I sent it.)

I didn't reach the conclusion I have because I am unread, and haven't searched for answers. I read what you wrote,(he couldn’t have. He sent me a response just as fast as I sent my message. He couldn’t have had time to read it.) but it is wrong. Read the blog, and have an open mind. Confirmation bias is no way to seek out Truth. I know what you are doing, as I did it myself when I was a Christian trying to defend my beliefs.

seriously.. this is not an effort to defend my beliefs. How can you sit back and say.. it’s wrong. There were plenty of Prophecies I brought up, that are indeed not wrong. There is scientific evidence to back them up. I am not saying you are unread. But really, where are you now? Everything in your blogs are just copied opinions of someone else. Like I said before. I do not wish to talk you into the bible friend. I do not wish to talk you into "The judeo Christian GOD." I sent those last comparisons to you in an effort to make you sit back and think about it again. It was in an effort to make you consider - These people Im reading- might possibly be wrong. And if they are wrong, Then I am sending myself, and millions of others- to hell with me. And as far as the Muslims.. It doesn’t matter if they are brainwashed by Christianity or atheism... because their bible says their probably all going to hell anyway!


Just read it and stop making excuses. Your "prophecies" are covered there. FAILED PROPHECIES I have done TONS of reading my friend. You need to play catch up.

alright, I can see you are beginning to get a little upset. Know that I did read through your blog, and the links you provided. Believe me when I tell you, I really do understand where you are coming from. I myself, have studied these things also, and have "tons of reading" Im thinking I should end this here, if you wouldn’t mind. I do not wish to make you angry. Thank you for talking with me. I have taken everything you've written and sent, and burned it into my brain. It is there now, and it is something I will continually learn from. I pray that one day, you yourself, will take these things I've sent you, into consideration as well. Peace be with you Gadfly. and please REMEMBER: If I am wrong, Nothing happens. If you are wrong, YOU and millions of others, are subject to eternity without GOD.

whatever, you are being dishonest here, and you are wasting my time.
(I chose not to respond after that, It was obvious it was no longer possible to talk with him, without a fight, or harsh words. but soon after this message, he sent me another)

HERE IS WHY YOUR STATEMENT, "and please REMEMBER: If I am wrong, Nothing happens. If you are wrong, YOU and millions of others, are subject to eternity without GOD." is NOT convincing
This is where it ends.
What do you think?

1 comment:

Anonymous said...

I kinda have been expecting this in a way...
But I reali dun think da world is going to end...start a new era maybe but the world is not ending.
That's not gonna happen till a thousand years later! Ok, I'm not sure bout that either but that's not the point! The world's not gonna end! Full stop!
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